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@  rockgodmalco... : (25 April 2014 - 12:46 AM) To get my java to work i had to have 32 and 64 bit installed. also if you have java 3D it messes up for some reason
@  Ravenor911 : (22 April 2014 - 10:56 PM) incorrect log in :/ but its the right one :/
@  Ravenor911 : (22 April 2014 - 10:56 PM) hmmm
@  JackMahogoff : (21 April 2014 - 10:17 PM) ah, had the wrong java installed (32 instead of 64). If anyone else had a problem with mc crashing on start, Java pushed an update today that started my probs. Might try unistalling/reinstalling it first :)
@  JackMahogoff : (21 April 2014 - 10:11 PM) I see. Well i reinstalled java and minecraft. Can log on now with about 1 frame per 10 seconds so the troubleshooting continues :)
@  SuicidalEmbryo : (21 April 2014 - 10:10 PM) minecraft servers have been having issues today
@  SuicidalEmbryo : (21 April 2014 - 10:09 PM) http://xpaw.ru/mcstatus/
@  JackMahogoff : (21 April 2014 - 09:47 PM) same problem with me, was working fine then crashed now it either just times out or gets an end of stream error
@  Atsza : (21 April 2014 - 08:26 PM) Any thoughts why I can't log in? it says logging in when i try to connect. It shows the server is online and how many people are on at the moment.
@  Edxx3 : (21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM) good to be back!
@  Edxx3 : (21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM) yoyoyo
@  w12w : (19 April 2014 - 01:24 PM) civ beyond earth reminds me of civ alpha centauri
@  seanos1998 : (19 April 2014 - 11:15 AM) well, from what i've seen it looks a lot more alieny
@  MatthewSaotome : (19 April 2014 - 07:34 AM) when it comes to the new civilization game beyond earth, i saw some screen shots of the actual game, it reminds me of Civ 5 but im sure its better.
@  seanos1998 : (17 April 2014 - 10:16 AM) also, it works with a pulverizer too if i'm not mistaken
@  seanos1998 : (17 April 2014 - 10:15 AM) i know ravenor, but i just said that because it was the more obvious answer
@  Ravenor911 : (17 April 2014 - 01:27 AM) lies, lead ore, put it in a force grinder and you can geta chance for some silver (I know prob too late now)
@  JackMahogoff : (16 April 2014 - 08:34 PM) server go boom
@  seanos1998 : (16 April 2014 - 11:48 AM) silver is only found in the nether or the deep dark
@  wizkid515 : (16 April 2014 - 09:11 AM) Hey all, I've been playing Gigatech on a SSP map but I can't seem to find silver for the life of me. What level should I be looking on for this elusive metal

Equivalent Exchange

Equivalent Exchange

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73 replies to this topic

Poll: Equivalent Exchange Poll (106 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Equivalent Exchange be allowed?

  1. Voted Yes, definitely; everything should be allowed! (20 votes [18.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.87%

  2. Voted Yes, but only some items to prevent abuse and griefing. (57 votes [53.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.77%

  3. No, Equivalent Exchange should not be allowed. (29 votes [27.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.36%

Vote

#1 Guest_Prodygy_*

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:14 AM

So there have been discussion in-game about the possibility of adding EE. This forum is to be a place to refresh the discussion of adding equivalent exchange, since the administration hasn't posted about this in a while.

I don't know exactly what the admins and Galen have in mind, and I hope that they will enlighten us on their thoughts.

I suggest that everyone should check out the Equivalent Exchange Wiki and play around in single player if they've never used EE before.

Please don't flame each other. Keep it cool and remember that this is still an idea floating around; nothing it set in stone yet.

Edit: Matthew is compiling a list of EE items here.



#2 matthew3502

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:39 AM

well it has been decided already that some items will be implemented but not the entire thing. that convo you saw was fox getting info/deciding what to implement.

as fox got off already and he reads most of the forums ill paste the last 3 items info here for a discussion later.

swift wolfs gale baically flying, however it can launch lightining bolts and repell mobs, seems a little op but to counter it ithas a redstone cost.(i vote no but thats just my openion)

the zero ring, if the ignition ring is implemented this should be as well, its the counter ring to that, it only throws snowballs and then places snow around the player and turns water into ice around the player(my only problem is the ice part)

and last item is the sheers, while all the tools are cool the only one that really is not covered by another tekkit mod is the shears. they shear sheep and drop the wool on your head, they drop on average 8 wool instead of 3 and have teh abilitly to ocasionally clone the sheep. these things are free to use. if i think of a reason to use any other item that was not discussed in game I shall post here

#3 Guest_Prodygy_*

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

Good to know. If I may make a suggestion...

I think alchemy chests should be added, since they act as a double large chests and don't break the game in any way whatsoever. They also don't cause lag.

I will leave the poll up as a way of feeling out the community response.

#4 matthew3502

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:58 AM

I think fox already said those and alchemy bags are a go. other items like the dark hole band are up for debate as there are good features and then possible bad features(for that its the liquid removal part)

#5 Guest_Prodygy_*

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

Excellent.

This is why I made this topic, so that players can view the things which may be added and see what the admins and Galen are thinking, because many players (myself included) feel like we don't know what's going on in regards to EE. (Perhaps because we play on the server at different times?) I, and players like myself, would like a list of everything that's going to be included or that is in consideration for being included.

Edit: I don't want to sound condescending, but I feel like a lot of players are left out-of-the-loop, and as a concerned community member, I would like to know what is going to be added, without having to ask like 20 different people who all give roundabout answers. =

Edit edit: My goal is that more people are involved in the decision of which EE items to allow into the server. Hence, why this topic exists.

#6 matthew3502

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 02:47 AM

okay as I was present for most of the conversation the list, if parts of ee are implement, as far as I can tell will likely include:
probably:
the mind stone
harvests godess band
ring of ignition
alchemy chest
alchemy bag
Maybe/possible(some issues with functions)
black hole band

Items that should not change the game play but have not been discussed with fox
Zero ring
redmatter shears
dark matter shears


as for the rest of the dark/red matter tools unsure how they stand but my guess is probably no.

#7 erazure

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:08 AM

I dislike all the rings and find them either utterly useless or excessively overpowered when compared to existing items and equipment. I also think, if only just for the sake of answering players' I CAN MAKE/BUY RING_X WHY CAN'T I MAKE/BUY RING_Y OMG (you know it'll happen, considering we already get OMG WHY NO EE?! at least twice a day) they should just all be kept out. Not to mention the fact of having to recharge them, how would that work with so little else enabled?

I think the cloning and extra wool abilities of the matter shears would be a touch excessive to have in game. Critters are under the "intensive server activity" banner, so the ability to spit out exponential amounts of them seems unwise. I don't know if getting a ton of wool (colored or otherwise) from each shear is a great idea, either. Flooding the world with tons of any given item doesn't seem to be something Galen's been about up til now.

I've seen servers that tend to not allow much beyond alchemist boxes, repair talismans/convalescence dust, and divining rods. None of those items add much to the game that isn't already there (quantum armor and electric tools are reusable, thus being equivalent to repairing, though unlimited usage of enchantments is something to consider; divining rods aren't TOO much different than scanners, at least the first two). I don't know that alchemist chests are LWC lockable, so people would need to be instructed about using signs to make them private.

I've heard alchemy bags can be problematic in multiplayer, since the contents can get erased whenever anything gets updated. I have no experience with this first hand, mind you.

#8 matthew3502

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:22 AM

I partially agree with most of your points, of all the rings the only one I really want is the dark hole ring as it can out items straight into the alchemy bag( but it has the infinite bucket flaw), as for the sheep cloning I think that can be turned off, or as it is a very low percentage to clone it you could just have dark matter shears as it has a lower chance. As for the increase of wool I think it is somewhat nesescarry, due to the mob cap and the size of the server peaceful mobs are increasingly difficult to find, the only viable way to get wool now is with a flax farm that can take ages. As for recharging the rings they run off of redstone/ glowstone dust in your inventory, they can also use emc but I doubt klien stars will be spawned.as for the repair talisman and covalence dust I really think those are un needed And as I assume most of this stuff will be sold in the admin shop will not be price efficient to use. As for divining rods they are a bit unbalanced compared to the scanners as they are infinite and offer different types of data so I dont see a good need for them, I'm not saying they shouldn't be considered as the admins might think they are fine for the server but I will not be buying one.
As for the chests yes any block prety much can be added to lwc to be protected.
The bags, I've heard of that problem but am not certain if it is true, I need to mess around with a tekkit server because I have a few idea on how that could be fixed but not certian.

#9 Shadowfoxnick

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:06 AM

Erazure, we'll get that already no matter what, whether in the form of why we do/dont have this or that plugin, or do or don't have this or than enabled.

Thanks for the wiki link, I was looking for that. As for the server conversations, I'm doing this to learn more about people's experiences (mine are outdated, dark matter was new when I used EE) and in the end composing a rough draft with implementation procedures to Galen to review.

If anyone would like to help, the most helpful thing to me would be the following format.


-Item Name

-All effect the item can do.

-How many diamonds it takes to make the item (to compare relative costs)

-The active costs of using all of the effects, such as redstone burned to use rings, etc.

-Your opinion on how it would affect the server regarding griefing, balancing, etc.

#10 matthew3502

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:50 PM

Sure thng, I'll draw up a list of all that stuff later today, shouldn't be that long of a list.

#11 1deano1

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:09 PM

What about the energy condenser? That would be rather useful to have for those that use quarries.

-Item Name: Energy Condenser

-All effect the item can do: Takes all the useless stuff you don't want such as cobble and dirt and converts it into EMC which, when an item is placed in the box to the left of the bar, converts all the stored EMC into those items.

-How many diamonds it takes to make the item (to compare relative costs) It takes 6 diamonds to make (includes alchemical chests and the prerequisite materials)

-The active costs of using all of the effects, such as redstone burned to use rings, etc. Doesn't cost anything to run... Just needs pipes connecting to it if you want it direct from a quarry.

-Your opinion on how it would affect the server regarding griefing, balancing, etc I don't think it would affect the server much as it takes a long time to gather anything significant like a diamond.

#12 zampfeo

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:39 PM

What about the energy condenser? That would be rather useful to have for those that use quarries.

-Item Name: Energy Condenser

-All effect the item can do: Takes all the useless stuff you don't want such as cobble and dirt and converts it into EMC which, when an item is placed in the box to the left of the bar, converts all the stored EMC into those items.

-How many diamonds it takes to make the item (to compare relative costs) It takes 6 diamonds to make (includes alchemical chests and the prerequisite materials)

-The active costs of using all of the effects, such as redstone burned to use rings, etc. Doesn't cost anything to run... Just needs pipes connecting to it if you want it direct from a quarry.

-Your opinion on how it would affect the server regarding griefing, balancing, etc I don't think it would affect the server much as it takes a long time to gather anything significant like a diamond.


To add to this, it takes 8k dirt/cobble to make 1 diamond. 8k dirt/cobble can make roughly 750 scrap. 750 scrap can aid in the creation of 22 UU matter. 22 UU matter can make 2.5 diamonds.

This seems somewhat balanced, but then you need to consider that the scale in value is much higher for the energy condenser than the recycler.

For example:

1 tungsten = 2 diamonds
8 gems = 1 diamond
16 silver = 1 diamond
4 gold = 1 diamond
1 marble/glass/brick of any kind/stone/ = 1 dirt

So, in order for this to work there would need to be a substantial change to EMC values to help the economy. In other words, it shouldn't be beneficial to gather one thing to get something of high value. It should be a way to get rid of useless junk, not an easy way to get a high value block. Either way, it would remove all market fluctuations because block x will always equal a certain number of block y.

#13 1deano1

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:01 PM

Yeah but to get UU matter you need a whole host of other machines don't you? Not to mention the power to run the machines as well.

#14 Shadowfoxnick

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:10 PM

I can say this right now quite easily. I doubt we will ever implement the "alchemy/condensing" portion of this, as it does nothing but promote easy/automatic wealth from cobble gens. The closest thing to energy creation we might add would be the energy collector mk I, and that's very, very doubtful. I'd have to see how fast it basically produces redstone for free. Again, doubtful. Things like rings, tools, and bags are more likely to happen.

The key here is indeed balance, in particular the balance of working for credits, trading credits, etc. If something is completely automatable, especially that easily, the answer will 99% of the time be no.

#15 matthew3502

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:01 AM

Okay this is just a place holder for now, I shall start with descriptions of most/all of the items

=Rings of Power=

Iron Band
:Description
Band used to craft other rings.
~Special Abilities
None
-Cost of Usage
None
Personal Opinion
Useless

Archangels Smite
:Description
Shoots homing arrows made from cobblestone
~Special Abilities
Shoots arrows extremely fast
-Cost of Usage
14 cobblestone per arrow
Personal Opinion
No, overpowered and cheap

Black Hole
:Description
Sucks items into your inventory from fatter away, allows items to go directly Into an alchemical chest/bag. Can be used as an infinite bucket to remove liquid
~Special Abilities
Asked any liquid, suck items into certain inventories
-Cost of Usage
None
Personal Opinion
Yes, only downside is the infinite bucket(greifing) but could possibly be disabled/perm bans for doing it

Harvest Godess
:Description
Only related to plants, can mass plant, keep fields tilled, auto harvest, speed up growth
~Special Abilities
Mass plant, harvest mode, speed up growth(uses bonemeal), keeps fields tilled
-Cost of Usage
Harvest mode- 1 redstone every 10 seconds
Speed up growth- 4 bonemeal to try and grow all plants around the wearer.
Personal Opinion
Yes, there is no bad side of the ring

Ring of Ignition
:Description
Fire related effects
~Special Abilities
Wearer immune to fire/lava
Can throw a fireball
Extinguish fore around wearer
Make a wall of fire
Kill all mobs around
-Cost of Usage
Kill all mobs- 1 redstone every 10 seconds
Personal Opinion
No, can be used for pvp and is too cheap to use, also greifing

Swiftwolfs Rendering Gale
:Description
Flight
~Special Abilities
No fall damage
Flight,
projectile that launches mobs
Sphere of repulsion
-Cost of Usage
flight-1 redstone every 10 seconds
Repulsion- 1 redstone every 10 seconds
Personal Opinion
No, covered by a jetpack already

Void Ring
:Description
Black hole band and gem of eternal density
~Special Abilities
Can teleport up to 150 blocks
-Cost of Usage
None
Personal Opinion
No

Zero Ring
:Description
Ice
~Special Abilities
Freezes water
Throws snowballs
-Cost of Usage
None
Personal Opinion
No problem with it, yes

Ring of Arcana
:Description
Swift wolf, harvest, zero, ignition rings in o e
~Special Abilities
To many overpowered
-Cost of Usage
None
Personal Opinion
No

=Stones=

Body Stone
:Description
heals hunger
~Special Abilities

heals 2 hunger per second
-Cost of Usage
1 redstone per hunger restored
Personal Opinion
no, overpriced, will not be used

Life Stone
:Description
body+soul stone
~Special Abilities

heals health/hunger
-Cost of Usage
1 redstone per health/hunger
Personal Opinion
not usefull, no

Soul Stone
:Description
heals you
~Special Abilities

restores health
-Cost of Usage
2 redstone per heart
Personal Opinion
no, not usefull. quantum helmet does that.

Mind Stone
:Description
stores exp levels
~Special Abilities

stores exp levels
-Cost of Usage
none
Personal Opinion
yes, no negative uses and no server strain

{to be expanded, I'm just going to drop in place holders now for other parts}

Possible format
:Description
~Special Abilities
-Cost of Usage
Personal Opinion

#16 matthew3502

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:50 AM

Place holder 1
=Armor=

-Darkmatter
Helmet
Chestplate
Leggings
Boots

-Redmatter
Helmet
Chestplate
Leggings
Boots

-Gem
Abyss Helmet
Infernal Armor
Gravity Greaves
Hurricane Boots

=Tools=

-Darkmatter
Sword
Hammer
Shears
Pick
Axe
Shovel
Hoe

-Redmatter
Sword
Hammer
Shears
Pick
Axe
Shovel
Hoe
Katar
Morningstar

#17 matthew3502

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

Place holder 2
=Items=

Alchemical Bag
:Description
holds 104 slots for items
~Special Abilities

each color bag is linked to a diferent inventory
-Cost of Usage
n/a

Personal Opinion
yes, but sold at high cost and giving with a warning that there will not be reimbursments for lost bags, bags placed in bags, or bags cleared when tekkit updates(adaquate warning will be given)

Evertide Amulet
no just no, infinite energy and easy griefing

Volcanic Amulet
no, same as the above except worse

Gem of Eternal Density
no, conenses everything into diamond ore, no cost when in an alchemical chest/bag.

Klein Star
no, only use is energy storage

Philosophers Stone
no allows transforming items

Destruction Catalyst
mines out long tunels, inly uses redstone if it mines stuff, overpowered and easy to greif with

Talisman of Repair
no, gives free repair to items when in a bag/chest

Pedestal
uses items in its inv to do aoe effects

Alchemical Tome
no, only use is to teach every item to a transmutation tablet

Watch of Flowing Time does not work on servers, would mess things up. also only works on ee machines.


Mercurial Eye
builds walls, uses raw emc, not really usefull


Divining Rod
id be fine with these, basically a horizontal ov scanner

HyperKinetic Lens
throws ball of energy, no, uses glowstone and overpowered

Catalytic Lens
hyperkinetic and destruction catalyst, just no

Covalence Dusts
alows for infinite tools, eseless with ic2 electric stuff.

#18 matthew3502

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:51 AM

Place holder 3
=Materials/Fuels=

Alchemical Fuel
Möbius Fuel
Aeternalis Fuel
Darkmatter
Darkmatter Block
Redmatter
Redmatter Block

=Blocks=

Transmutation Table
Antimatter Relay
Energy collector
Energy condenser
Darkmatter Furnace
RedMatter Furnace
Alchemical chest

#19 Guest_Prodygy_*

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:57 AM

I approve =3

#20 matthew3502

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:28 AM

Okay I have finished Making slots for all the items and have made a sample of what each item will have under it, namely information to determine if it is implemented. I had been meaning to do this for a while but I was putting it off as it just takes so much time. Anyway I shall start describing items tomorrow when I have some more free time. For now it is off to sleep.